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ronelhamaty · Senior Member

PROFFESIONAL REBORN ARTIST STATUS

Play Days Dolls · Guru

To be perfectly honest, I do not have a definitive answer. I think there are varying degrees of professionalism. With all the emphasis on keywords and marketing oneself, I think there is such a hyper focus on words today that "professional" might be one of the terms that is over-used.

Does it mean someone needs to reach a specific level of excellence?

I think every group, school, company or entity sets unique standards that must be met in order to be described as a professional or professional "whatever-the-skill-is."

For instance, some reborner artists take classes--either online or at a specific location from a company, a group, or an individual. When the students master the criteria for passing an advanced class, perhaps the teacher would bestow some sort of professional title on the students. The one with which I am most familiar in addition to the Secrist teacher certification class--Simply Reborn. I haven't taken any of the classes from Simply Reborn but wished I could afford the opportunity when I first began to make reborn dolls.

If professional means reaching a level of excellence, is it always based on artistic skills? I found some groups with the requirement that the artist must have a verifiable number of reborn sales. That requirement says nothing about the quality of the actual work--only that the work must be good enough that it resulted in 25 verifiable sales transactions.

Does it mean someone is said to be professional if recognition has been given for the work by winning or placing in a competition? There are some competitions that are considered major ones in the doll world, and there are more minor ones. If a person wins a minor competition, does that mean that artist is "professional"? Or does someone need to win several minor or a major competition?

Or... maybe a professional designation is dependent upon the amount of time spent on the work? The thesaurus lists the word "practiced" as a synonym.

The thesaurus lists the following synonyms for the word professional when used as a descriptive word: skilled; specialized; qualified; proficient; trained; certified. The only opposite given is "amateur."

When professional is used as a person (noun), synonyms listed are: authority; expert; specialist.

My best guess is that a professional reborner describes someone who is one or all of the above. Isn't the bottom line dependent upon what others think about the work? I've seen dolls made by people who call themselves experts, and I doubt I would purchase the doll even if I had the money. There are others who do not advertise they belong to any guilds or groups. Nor did this latter group take classes, yet their work may be among the best I've seen.

It will be interesting to read responses to your question!

ronelhamaty · Senior Member

Hi Linda

Thank you for your reply, yes it would be interesting to know who qualifies to use the word "Professional" and how it is measured and against who's standard. INDEED INTERESTING. So anyone in his own eyes are a master/professional.

I saw dolls with Secrist's Teacher logos displaying on their websites that made me think about the standard of those teachers.

I also saw websites of "Professionals" that I would not buy a doll from!

mkhammy1 · Senior Member

Hi Ronel! IMHO, anyone who make money doing something is a professional. I can't enter any of my doll furniture at the State Fair because I've sold some and now am considered a "professional" and don't qualify for entry into the hobby section. LOL! Hugs, Melinda

ronelhamaty · Senior Member

It is rediculous! I cannot believe you are not allowed to enter. Some say if you do something for a living and it is your profession (career) then you are a professional. I would say the word "professional" must equal the word "Excellence"

I wouldn't say if you sell your very first doll then you are a professional. I would say you have to master the craft but according to Who's standard?

lastingmemoriesrebornnursery · Veteran Member

I use the words Professional Reborn Artist in my auctions and on my website. To me Professional is more about how you conduct yourself and your business. I don't care how wonderful the baby is if you are lacking great customer service that is not being professional. I think you have to look at the complete package. How well the baby is made (sure everyone has difference in opinions on babies) Presentation of the baby (photography, outfits etc) Shipment of the baby (how well it is packaged what the baby comes home with) Warranties on the baby or Return Policies, Communication of the seller and so much more. All of these things combined are what a professional is about.

I mostly do Custom Orders and Portrait Orders and I have had so many people tell me that Artists tend to do their own thing instead of what the buyer wants. To me this is not Professional at all especially when you are doing Custom or Portraits. I have had Artists tell me that I go overboard with my clients lol. I literally can have over 100 emails just for one Custom order. It is a lot of work but it is also my reputation on the line and that is all that you have in cyberspace.

I also see a Professional Artist is one that continues to educate themselves through classes and learning new techniques. The Reborn world is forever changing. When I started a mere year and a half ago we were sanding hair lines off of dolls lol now they are painting hair on. Okay not exactly the same thing but you see where I am going. A professional needs to keep up with the latest trends ( I am still trying to get the hair painting perfect lol)

Most importantly a Professional needs to know his or her limitations. I have been fortunate with my clients and have sold babies during this entire time. However, at one point when I was not rooting to the best of my ability I actually hired a rooter to do all of my custom orders hair. It cut down on my profit however it guaranteed that the baby they ordered was exactly what they wanted. Fortunately I have gotten the hang of the dreaded swirl and with alot of mentoring from the lady that I hired I am rooting again and loving it (never thought I would say that lol)

I am a full time Professional Reborn Artist. This has stopped being a hobby for me and now is my only source of income. I have worked long and hard to get to where I am at and have hit major obstacles along the way. Reborning is so much more than just painting the baby when you want to be called Professional. It bothers me that there are so many horrible reborns on the market and the Artist calls themself a Professional. Especially when I see this Artist has been reborning 5 or 6 years and has not improved it makes me wonder.

I think a lot of people go to eBay type in reborns then hit the highest first and copy thier auctions. they figure hey they are using this term and their babies are selling maybe if I do it my babies will sell too.

There will never be a set standard in this Art. Because Art is all in the eye of the beholder. What I may think is horrible someone else may be madly in love with. So it has to go beyond the baby.
Sorry this was so long winded lol

Buffington · Guru

Sorry to say hun, but that's the way the competitive world goes. Most contests will consider you a professional if you have ever sold 1 thing in the area you are trying to compete (dolls, ceramics, furniture, etc). Yes, it seems rediculous but for those who are "hobbyists" and have never sold a piece, this can be very frightening to go up against a "professional" to them (it doesn't mean their work is any better than the hobbiest, and doesn't mean the hobbyist work is any less quality). The hobbyists consider the people who sell to be professionals because they do sell their work. Been there, done that!

Now, as was said before, this in no way means the work that these people (professionals) sold was "of professional quality"!!! There is quite a difference as you all have noticed. Anyone can really say they are professional and who is the judge? IMHO I think it's all subjective. But most people are called professionals if they sell their work. It's a title. Some buyers like titles and some don't. Like the different guilds and such, it's their opinion.

You could say you are "award winning" on your web because you did win top 10 with Secrist on "their" contest. You are definately within your rights to say that because it is a fact that can't be disputed. I have been certified by Secrist as a Newborning teacher (as is Linda D.) in "the Secrist method of Newborning" as we have our certificates from Secrist himself. I also have been reborning for over 6 years, and making Apple Valley dolls for 19 years and in my mind I am a professional, but that doesn't mean someone else would think so.
I wrote on your whiteboard in reply to your question, go see what I wrote. :)

And I do agree, professionalism should include the full package and include your customer service too (IMHO).

Hope this helps

-- Edited by Buffington on Monday 31st of August 2009 01:58:01 PM

ronelhamaty · Senior Member

Thanks Pat I have read that. I will do so. What you all say is true. It is definately the whole package. I have sold over 200 dolls in less than 2 years and yes they did improve from then to now. So would it be fair is I call myself a professional?

-- Edited by ronelhamaty on Monday 31st of August 2009 07:01:46 PM

sara zata · Guru

I became a professional after many major awards for my porcelain dolls, and as I became good at it I decided to sell some at a doll show, sold Four first show and have many people commenting on my work, now with the reborns have only entered one and got 95 from 100 but lost 5 points for not dressing her myself. As I have now sold 3 on ebay I would have to say I was a professional. For the 1 st yr you are learning, you are a novice, 2 nd yr you are non professional, and from then on if you are purely making them for yourself or gifts. XXXXX June

ronelhamaty · Senior Member

I made porcelain dolls as well and became a Master Porcelain Dollmaker. But you had to do their trainning courses, (to level up to the standard of exellence) which I did and compete in shows, locally and internationally. I won many awards locally as well as Internationally, in Best on show, Best painted doll, Public's choice, best needlework, best scene, best professional and the list goes on.

Now that is what I mean, you were measured up againt the best and then earn the status of Master or Professional. I am a Master/Professional dollmaker in porcelain but does that mean that I am a master/proffesional in reborning dolls, which is totally different ? It seems to be a master/professional in the reborn world one can aim it, claim it and frame it.

I don't want to put a pip on my shoulder if I don't deserve it.

(Sorry, your piccy has been removed per the terms of the forum. You may list links here, not photos. If you wish you may put the piccy in the artist showcase.)
Pat B, Sr Forum Moderator

-- Edited by ronelhamaty on Tuesday 1st of September 2009 06:12:10 PM

-- Edited by Buffington on Friday 4th of September 2009 05:13:29 AM

Buffington · Guru

I totally understand. Those were a lot of ribbons! Same with me... I won in the judging ring for my porcelain dolls, and also for many ceramic creations and have a lot of 1st place, best of show, best of catagory, etc.
Although I have not entered any of my reborns into competition, I am certified as a professional doll teacher by Secrist himself. And since I do sell many reborns, I am considered a professional in the competion world and must enter contests as such.

ronelhamaty · Senior Member

Hi Pat I am just trying to figure out how to earn the status, As I knew how it is done in porcelain. (as you know, it was bloodshed and alot of money) I am not trying to offend any artist, I would love to call myself a Professional. I want to make sure I do it the right way. Some customers may ask how I became a "professional" and I want to answer them honestly. I do agree with your status, your qualifications was certified by Secrist himself no prob. It is all about MY status that I have asked the question. smile

mkhammy1 · Senior Member

Ronel, I've been checking all this out, and the only thing I have been able to find in terms of being deemed "professional" is the Reborn Artist's Guild. It doesn't seem to necessarily have anything to do with being a "professional," just a certain status. Apparently, to join the Guild, you have to have been reborning for at least a year and have a certain amount of sales, and your work is submitted to the Guild for their decision as to your abilities. That being said, being described as a professional I think depends on a number of things. I own a business selling testing equipment for highway materials (asphalt, concrete, etc.), and although I don't have any special certifications or degrees, everyone in the construction business (both in my home state and nationally) considers me a professional. It is because I know the industry well, I provide excellent customer service, I stay on top of the industry trends, and everyone knows that I will provide them with quality equipment. And if I don't know the answer to their questions, I'll get one!

As to reborning dolls, I think the same pretty much applies. And I don't believe that this is all a matter of opinion, rather a matter of fact. So, if what I've said applies to you, then by all means consider yourself a "professional." I consider myself one in my doll furniture business, and I mean to become a professional in reborning!

Forgive me for being longwinded. I sure hope this helps answer you question!
Hugs, Melinda

ronelhamaty · Senior Member

Thanks Melinda and all the Ladies who participate in my quest for answers. You see I am busy building my website and don't want to mislead my customers. OKAY, now I am a Professional Reborn Artist! (LOL) and I will display it proudly on my website. You know uneducated customers think if you are not a "professional" your work is not up to standard.

I thank you all for your comments and I wish you the best in selling your beautuful babies!

Hugs

sara zata · Guru

I started doing the certicates in Seeley's porcelain doll making which was costing an arm and a leg. I have a friend who was a wholesaler of all porcelain doll accessories and molds and was telling her about the classes. As one of them cost $650, it was the last I did. I have a Certificate in it and am able to get one in Antique doll making as I passed the exam, only if I pay to do the Seminars. She then said to me, isn't all the major awards, best of shows and best of sections , telling you something. You dont need a certifcate, when your piers think so highly of your work. So I would say the same about reborns, but there are some that can do and some that cant, I have been teaching a few ladies and their work won in the show, as best of show, best of section, and highly commended, they were very pleased with their work, as was I. Am teaching again in 3 weeks. That also puts you in a Professional status. XXXXX June

Play Days Dolls · Guru

To Ronel (a.k.a Professional Reborn Artist),

Thanks for starting this very interesting discussion.

Buffington · Guru

Yes, it has brought in a lot of thought Ronel. And you have come so very far as a reborner hun and your work shows it. To me, you are a Professional Reborn Artist hun.

I just went to the DD site where our Danielle Zweers 2 new sculpts are available and it says she's a professional artist. So there's another one :)

Cuisle · Veteran Member

Yes, I'd certainly call Danielle "professional" - whatever that means - she's certainly passionate, dedicated, and extremely talented - both as a sculptor AND as a reborner - Fay and Yentel are to die for - absolutely gorgeous - I love Stephanie Sullivan's quads also.

Pat B, your avatar twins are gorgeous.....

-- Edited by Cuisle on Wednesday 9th of September 2009 05:44:42 AM

-- Edited by Cuisle on Wednesday 9th of September 2009 05:45:10 AM

chez · Member

Hi all,
I have no answer to this question but I had to let you all know I finally worked out the Avatar woohooooo. Thanks to those who helped
Cherry

ronelhamaty · Senior Member

Hi cherry

I am glad you figured it out and I love your avatar to bits!!!! Well done.

Play Days Dolls · Guru

Woo hoo, Cherry! You sure did work it out. Your little Minnie baby is too cute for words in that costume. My little granddaughter has loved Mickey Katy was looking over my shoulder while I was working in this forum and exclaimed "Minnie!" when she saw your avatar.

Buffington · Guru

Thanks for the comment on Danielle's twins Caroline! Debbies does a wonderful job of newborning very realistically I think! I hope to have a set of them before they run out!
And yes, I too have my eyes on a set of Steph's quads! Just gotta sell more kits and supplies (and hopefully a baby or 2, or 3 lol).

Congrats on working out the avatar Cherry :)
I think your little Minnie baby is cute.

sara zata · Guru

Clever Cherry, she looks lovely in her setting. And to Pat yes those twin are georgious. So sorry it seems to be so long in between each visit. As you know I have Sam having surgery, May for the removal of a tumor in his right thryoide, June he fractured both wrists, and on the 4th he had his spine sugery which has been successful. The other thing we found is he has osteoporosis( spell check ) and on fri we saw a dental surgeon and he has to have surgery in his mouth to remove a cyst that has eaten away about 2.5cm of his gum, after she removes that and takes out the nerves from about 4 teeth and fills them, the jaw bone should grow back but will take about 12 mths. You learn something new everyday. XXXXX June.

Buffington · Guru

OMG! June! You and Sam sure have a lot going on. My best wishes that everything turns out and he'll be healthy again (and you can come to forum more).
HUGS hun! :)

Ronel! A random thought just came to me... :O
Why don't you check with Stephanie Sullivan on the "professional" issue? I think she's the head of IRDA and she's a reborner and sculptor. If anyone would know, she would I'll betcha! Tell her I said to check with her. Or maybe ask her to post in this thread if she would. She comes on occassionally and posts.
It couldn't hurt!

-- Edited by Buffington on Monday 14th of September 2009 05:01:39 PM

Play Days Dolls · Guru

It's a great idea to ask Stephanie. She is another one of those gifted people who can sculpt and reborn, and her quads are on my wish list, too.

June, I'm so sorry to hear about all the medical procedures Sam must endure. It just doesn't seem fair for one person to have all those problems. Luckily, he has you.

ronelhamaty · Senior Member

Hi June I wish I was near you to lend a helping hand. Oh my word, what a hectic year for you two. You are in my prayers.

**o0o**

Pat that is a great idea, I will ask Stephanie what she thinks. It would be lovely if she can give us insight on this issue. I already adopted my new status (LOL).

sara zata · Guru

Thank you everyone, this has been going on for almost three years, and he is getting so frustrated with himself not being able to do the things he used to. I understand how he feels, I would prefere it was me. He had 2 fractured hips and pelvises to start off with and spent 6 mths flat on his back. Goodness, if I had to spend more than a week I would go stark raving mad. So once again thank you for your kind words and best wishes. XXXXX June

marjay · Newbie

Hi everyone, I am new to the forum today, July 21st 2014. I am very interested in this discussion about when a reborn artist would be able to apply the term, 'professional' to their auctions. I have been a professional artist of many mediums for nearly 40 years and am an art lecturer and have a degree in art. I started creating ceramic dolls about 15 years ago and now am thoroughly enjoying reborning dolls from the wonderful, realistic sculpts available. I have sold quite a few and consider myself a professional artist so now that my medium is reborning, I feel I can class myself as a professional reborn artist. I hope that makes sense. I use all the best skills and materials too and strive for weeks on excellence for each reborn I create, doing research and improving my techniques with every new reborn. I love my own dolls and love others' reborn dolls too. I think the word, 'professional' is all that you say in your replies above. It refers to the fact that we sell reborns and also refers to the quality of reborns we create; it also refers to our customer service and our support of one another and respect for reborners of various levels of skills. I agree with the idea that winning a competition or having sold x-amount of reborns should not be the criteria as that is limiting professionalism to the one or two who managed to win the competition. There can be many of equal standard that didn't win for some reason. Also, as you know there are the guilds who suggest that one is a professional if they have sold ten or more reborns and have testimonies to that fact. That makes things very difficult for up-and-coming reborn artists who put their auctions up only to find that nobody buys their reborns no matter how good they are, because they are not in a guild or haven't won a competition; my question is how can you then join the guild if you can't sell your dolls because you are not in the guild and don't have that 'stamp' of vailidity? Buyers seem to mainly buy from reborners who have awards from various places, or they may buy the very cheap ones. The silicone ones seem to sell no matter what the price. Thanks for reading my first post, June xxx

-- Edited by marjay on Sunday 20th of July 2014 11:29:01 PM